Talk:Inscription/Archive1
71.113.3.166 19:42, 24 February 2007 (CST)Please, Let me know if this post is against copy rights or not, the information was posted in a magazine, so is of public domain, but I ignore if it a summary of it is against any international copy rights. Thank You. :Well, if you used your own words to summarize this (assuming you didn't cut and paste that sentence) and the entire article wasn't about this change, it's fair use. But I think the wiki decided to not use info from magazines anyway? --Fyren 15:08, 5 October 2006 (CDT) Big Deal with a capital B This is huge. One will be able to buy a max staff in Kaineng, salvage the inscription, and put it on any skin they fancy. No more exorbitant costs for perfect zodiac staves. Or, you could craft a perfect Katana in the end-game of Factions, and put the +5 energy on any sword. This may be one of the hugest things to hit the player economy. --Tisiphone 14:26, 21 October 2006 (CDT) :AFAIK, they haven't changed being unable to salvage collector/crafter weapons... DKS01 17:02, 1 November 2006 (CST) :The whole reason behind this is because Anet themselves are trying to make a game based of skill, not how much you play or how much money you have. This will certainly lower the price of perfect weapons. This will bring it more to a level of "Ok, our gear is the same, now, lets see who's better". The price of rare skins will still be expensive, but not near as expensive as they are now. I see this as a good thing because, lets say someone just started playing GW, they find a max dmg weapon, a non-max damage wep with a 20/20 sundering, and a non-max with 15^50. Instead of possibly losing the 20/20 sundering, and having to pay 25K+(which they wont have cause there new), they will be able to put the sundering on the max weapon. Same goes for the 15^50, they dont need to buy a max dmg weapon with 15^50(which can be expensive depending on the weapon). They can simply make their own max dmg 15^50 20/20 sundering, instead of having to pay 50K+ that they dont have. This mainly affects us who have been here for awhile because it means all the stuff we paid good money for are now nearly worthless. Though when we make new characters, we will get equivilent weapons for no more than 10K or so. Besides, I wouldnt want to buy 80K+ worth of upgrades to give my hero's decent weapons. --Mwpeck 11:00, 22 October 2006 (CDT) :::Actually they mentioned that PVE inscriptions are not all that common, didnt they? -Anooneemiss 22:32, 26 October 2006 (CDT) :I'd also like to point out that only weapons found in NF can have inscriptions, and not all crafter weapons in NF are inscribable. I have not noticed a big drop in weapon pricing probably because there are certain weapons that still don't drop as inscribable, and most people with NF use heroes, which means more mouths to feed/hands to fill with weapons. StatMan 15:02, 29 December 2006 (CST) "To the Pain!" There's been plenty of The Princess Bride references. I love it. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:28, 26 October 2006 (CDT) Could be a reference to a Nonpoint album released around the same time as Nightfall. Actellim 08:38, 8 March 2007 (CST) : There's plenty of TPB references in the game, this one is most likely one as well. If Anet released an inscription called "I'll Be Back" and someone released an album called that at around the same time, would you honestly think the reference was to that album and NOT the quote from Terminator(and numerous other Arnold movies)? Or if there was an inscription "Say hello to my little friend" and an album that came out by that name, would you really think the song referred to the album and not the Scarface quote? ::The point remains, until we have more conclusive proof, we should at least list it as a viable option. To do otherwise is limiting our distribution of information, since there is no evidence supporting one over the other; suggesting there is would be an inductive argument, with weak premesis. If you can present me with a deductive argument, or an inductive argument with reasonable premesis, I would more seriously considor it's removal. Actellim 20:43, 8 March 2007 (CST) :::I didn't say to remove it, I simply said to suggest that it might reference a band nobody really cares about, rather than referencing a movie that's already clearly well liked by someone on the dev team(which would be evidence supporting it as the most likely reference, BTW), was moronic. DKS01 20:55, 8 March 2007 (CST) ::::There are other references to bands nobody really cares about in the inscriptions as well, for example "Sleep Now in the Fire." You have no evidence to support that a dev liked The Princess Bride over a different band nobody cares about (also, if you read my previous post, I made a note of your evidence and why it was weak). Again, this is must my $.02. Actellim 08:36, 9 March 2007 (CST) :::::There are other TPB references in game though, which would seem to say there's at least one TPB fan on the dev team(or a guy who's really good at grabbing random quotes). As for the inscription, I'm not certain Sleep Now...is a reference to the song either, but Rage Against the Machine ARE a much more well established band than Nonpoint, which makes it a bit more likely. For "bands that nobody cares about" comparisons, RATM's second and third studio albums both entered the Billboard top 100 chart at number ONE and have gone multiplatinum(ie, 2+ million copies sold), Nonpoint's highest Billboard entry to date has been #52 and haven't even hit gold(500k sold) status yet. Not to debate the validity of either band(I dislike both of them personally) and not to say popularity is a sign of quality(most music I listen to doesn't have nearly the fanbase and recognition even Nonpoint has), but in terms of general appeal, recognition, and popularity, RATM clearly trump Nonpoint. And hey, if someone wants to think To the Pain is a reference to them it's their choice(like I said, I didn't say to remove the note), but I still think the odds of it being a reference to them rather than TPB are about 1000 to 1. Likewise, if they add an inscription "Great Balls of Fire" I'm going to assume it's a reference to the Jerry Lee Lewis song rather than a reference to Stephen Schneider's album "Great Balls of Fire Island" DKS01 09:23, 9 March 2007 (CST) Use Can inscriptions be applied to any non-green weapon or offhand item of the appropriate type? The update notes mentioned blank inscription slots. If they can only be applied to slotted items, does salvageing an incsiption without destroying an item free up the slot? Are inherent mods on existing weapons considered inscriptions? -- Gordon Ecker 04:12, 26 October 2006 (CDT) :An item needs to have a blank inscription slot in order to have an inscription applied to it. Salvaging an inscription from an item does indeed open up a free slot for another inscription. The inherent mods on Tyrian and Canthan items are not considered inscriptions. Only items from Elona will be inscribable, and as far as I understand, the inherent mod isn't always an inscription. Perceptes 10:33, 28 October 2006 (CDT) Now Avaliable Inscriptions are now avaliable to attack to new weapons and such for your pvp chars!!! Press J to open up pvp screen References that the rain is gooonneee... --Mgrinshpon 09:15, 27 October 2006 (CDT) :Seems a lot of inscriptions reference songs and such. Riders on the Storm(The Doors), Don't Fear the Reaper(Blue Oyster Cult), Serenity Now! and Master of my Domain from Seinfeld, The Riddle of Steel from Conan the Barbarian... DKS01 17:06, 1 November 2006 (CST) ::Ooh, I forgot about the Seinfeld ones... And "I have the power!" could be a reference to a megatokyo strip where Largo gets electrocuted by a telephone pole... --Armond Warblade (talk) 20:38, 1 November 2006 (CST) :::You killed a little bit of my childhood with that, man. Neongrey 21:04, 18 November 2006 (CST) :::"I have the power!" is more likely a reference to the long running fantasy kid's show/toy line He-Man...when the guy wanted to transform into He-Man, he raised his sword and shouted out "By the power of Greyskull...I have the power!" 66.169.114.32 00:59, 8 November 2006 (CST) ::::Each insription is a reference to something else, like some Quest names. But we should note the 'original' refence when we can. Even if you can see one of those quotes in some fiction works or games, they may be another refence aswell. Like 'Show me the money'. ::::'Show me the money' is originally a quote from 'Jerry Maguire' (1996) it's the #25 quote voted by the AFI. StarCraft was released in 1998. ::::'Show me the money', 'Power Overwhelming', 'Modify the phase variance', and many other cheat codes, like Warcraft ones, are references too. We should note the first original reference when possible. Mithran 10:03, 12 November 2006 (CST) :The last edit to the Trivia section was me. Mediawiki logged me out without me realising it and the edit happened anonymously. *sigh* --The Extremist User, Talk] 19:29, 22 November 2006 (CST) "Only the Strong Survive" is also an Elvis Presley song. 65.7.211.83 21:13, 23 November 2006 (CST) The trivia edit on "Don't think twice" is incorrect. The proper lyrics to Michael Jackson's song "Billie Jean" includes the phrase "Do think twice" (So take my strong advice, just remember to always think twice...do think twice), not "don't" as was stated in the edit. "Only the Strong Survive" is a line in the chorus of the Collecive Soul song "She Said", and the next line is "but I'm feeling quite weak." StatMan 10:24, 18 December 2006 (CST) Inscriptions duplcates Inscriptions is also at Weapon upgrade, they both have lists but only one should do this. Xeon 09:16, 27 October 2006 (CDT) "Leaf on the Wind" lol, just found this one today Armor +x vs Cold Damage. its a reference to Serenety the movie (based on the show Firefly). The pilot of the ship would say that whenever things got difficult. I just watched it last night, then got the drop this morning lol. Range or Max? Do we want to list the maximum value for each inscription, or the range of values it can carry? - Lord Ehzed 18:59, 28 October 2006 (CDT) : I think we should list the range. It gives more information without cluttering the page to much.- Astrael 08:44, 30 October 2006 (CST) Merge proposal Content is redundant to Weapon_upgrade#Inscriptions - for consistency, this article should redirect to that article. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Barek (talk • ) 19:24, October 28, 2006 (CDT). : I would be fine with merging this with the Weapon Upgrade article. However, I think that Inscriptions could deserve their own article, and would argue that we could pull the inscriptions out of Weapon_upgrades. Whichever happens, let's just make sure the two are synced first. - Lord Ehzed 23:19, 28 October 2006 (CDT) ::I think the inscriptions should have a seperate page because it looks like it will be a long list and it will clutter up the weapons upgrade page. 203.134.172.183 03:34, 29 October 2006 (CST) :::I'm fine with either merging this content over to the weapon upgrade article, or pulling that content and merging it in here. I just don't think we should maintain both at the same time, hard to keep edits in sync when they're maintained in two places at once. --- Barek (talk • ) - 09:40, 29 October 2006 (CST) ::::I think there is well enough content in inscription to warrant a separate article. The weapon upgrade article is already getting too big even without all the inscriptions. After all, inscriptions replace weapon modifiers, and we have a separate article for those too! -- 02:28, 7 November 2006 (CST) :::::Whatever we do, and whereever we put the result in the end, we must stop maintaining the same table twice in the wiki, right now! For a temporary solution I'll merge the two tables in inscription for now, where it should be maintained until we've decided where to put it. -- 09:58, 9 November 2006 (CST) ::::::THe solutions is easy. Inscriptions are an hybrid of modifiers and upgrades they are not like any of them, but something different. They should have their own page. Just a 'related articles' in modifiers and weapon upgrades directing to 'inscriptions' should be enough. Mithran 08:41, 12 November 2006 (CST) :::::::After the removal of the inscription part in weapon upgrades and the curent state of this article, I think a merge is not longer needed and just removed the proposal.Balwin 12:03, 21 November 2006 (CST) Selling So whats the best way to get cash for inscription? The only traders I've found that buy them are only offering 25gp! PsyDoll 03:39, 6 November 2006 (CST) :They don't hae their own NPC merchant like runes or dyes. You must sell them to other players. If you want to sell them to merchants, identify them first. Like runes, once identified they'll be sold for much more cash. Mithran 09:22, 12 November 2006 (CST) I havn't noticed a change in price for an incription: none item as opposed to an inscribed item (other than show me the money), this could be valuable information for sell price of items and inscriptions (usually, to make fast money in a low level area, I salvage off the inscription due to it always selling for 25 gold) :I think I saw somewhere that if you ID it the value goes up, at least a little. Can't get on GW to test it right now, though. --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:15, 9 December 2006 (CST) Articles for individual inscriptions Somebody created Show me the Money!. We need to decide whether we want individual articles for each inscription or not. On one hand it would make it easier to refer to them, like we've done with weapon upgrades, for example an Axe Grip of Warding. On the other hand there is a high degree of redundancy, and an overview article would avoid that. Discuss. -- 08:40, 8 November 2006 (CST) :I reckon we keep this as an overview and create individual articles for all the inscriptions. It's not like it hurts having the extra pages. --NieA7 10:27, 8 November 2006 (CST) ::Yes, they might hurt, because redundancy always means double maintainance work! Anyway, as a test I've created a template and applied it to Forget Me Not. Have a look and comment. -- 03:41, 9 November 2006 (CST) :::My prefered solution is having one article and make each name a redirect there. What I am very sceptical about is having a "template creep" that introduces templates into more and more articles. There are some good reasons to use templates for our skill pages, but dont forget that there is the big disadvantage of becomming less editable. --Xeeron 04:29, 9 November 2006 (CST) ::::Inscriptions are less likely to be referenced/edited than skills I would've thought. If this main list is maintained along similar lines to the unique items by campaign list I don't think it would cause any major problems. Basically I don't see why inscriptions should be treated differently than weapon mods - they all get their own pages so inscriptions should too. --NieA7 04:37, 9 November 2006 (CST) :::::I have not forgotten that, and I won't in future. Yes, a template makes the article less editable, but it also makes maintainance a lot easier. And the new parser code is so flexible that pretty much every variation of content can be covered. A change that can be done with one change of the template would otherwise require a crusade, editing each and every article that uses the template. For example in case of the BeastInfo template that's several hundred! I wish we had put auto-categorization into the beastinfo template. That would have saved Ab.Er.Rant several WEEKS of work! Anyway, this is not the place to discuss the general use of templates. If in the case of Inscriptions a majority thinks that we're better off without a template, I'll concurr. -- 04:49, 9 November 2006 (CST) :::::: With your template it is very easy and simple to use for creating a little article. I tried it with I Can See Clearly Now and I would vote to use the template and would create some more articles, if there is a general vote for this template Balwin 10:22, 11 November 2006 (CST) ::::::: I think that CERTAIN inscriptions most certainly DO merit their OWN pages. PRIME examples: :::::::"Show me the money!" ~ Add to an unwanted gold item, to increase the price a merchant pays. Perhaps a price increase correlation will be found by adding this inscription... Eg. It increases the original value by 20%... :::::::"Measure for Measure" ~ Add to increase the chance of salvaging a jewel from certain types of weapons. Now that jewels are used to make Vabbian Armor, people should know of ANY trick/tip to acquire more jewels. Also, experiments need to be done to find out if this inscription will increase the chance of a rare materials being salvaged from other items. Frostty1 06:31, 17 November 2006 (CST) :I don't see the value of an individual article for each one. For reference, it's much easier to have them all centralised - and there's not enough being said on the individual page to justify it not being conveniently located here. We use central articles and redirects from the individual names for several other elements within the game, I see no reason to do inscriptions any differently. --- Barek (talk • ) - 10:50, 6 December 2006 (CST) :One article with a bunch of redirects. --Fyren 10:58, 6 December 2006 (CST) ::Pages for each one consisting of a redirect to the appropriate section of this page? Or would that be too many redirect pages? --Armond Warblade (talk) 19:15, 9 December 2006 (CST) Revisist multiple article Several articles were created today for each inscription - my understanding was that we were going to handle this much like we do the individual keys, chests, runes, and insignia (ex: Shiverpeak Key, Shiverpeak Chest, Vigor, and Radiant) - they would be redirects to this central article. --- Barek (talk • ) - 13:31, 12 January 2007 (CST) :OK, before I create more sensless article I stop. :) But a page with a lot of links to redirects to the page itself, would not make a lot of sense to me either. If we have seperated articles, one have all information (including travia or anything else) on one view. And, if we have a category for inscriptions, someone could see all in alphabetical order (I like the order of the table right now, but there were some people who prefer the old order).Balwin 13:44, 12 January 2007 (CST) ::The links weren't there until just one or two edits ago, and should be removed. That eliminates the problem the article having links to redirects to itself. A category listing can exist with or without redirects, so isn't relavent. --- Barek (talk • ) - 13:46, 12 January 2007 (CST) :::I would like such small articles, were all information are packed into a very reader friedly form (which were given by the template by Teris L), even all the information are already in the table. So for me the additional articles are not superfluously, but maybe thats just me.Balwin 13:56, 12 January 2007 (CST) Inscriptions on FoW and Underworld items? I haven't been to either of these areas since the Nightfall update, so I don't know if the inscription system applies to items dropped in the Underworld and in the Fissure of Woe. I think it might be the case because these areas are accessible to Nightfall-only players. Does anybody have information regarding this? --Funky Jah 21:40, 15 November 2006 (CST) :Well after a few runs in the Underworld, it seems that items dropped there does not have any salvageable inscription, would be worth noticing that in the article. --Funky Jah 08:04, 25 November 2006 (CST) ::I think that it depends on how you get to the Underworld. For example, if you access through Prophecies via ToA, then you get Prophecies drops. If you get to it via Nightfall, you get Nightfall drops. I know some weapons are inscribable because I have an inscribed long sword, and long swords do not drop in the Nightfall campaign, except in FoW and UW StatMan 10:36, 18 December 2006 (CST) :::Well I jsut tried it and didnt get any inscription, I got 2 gold weapons and some purple and none had inscription.—'├ Aratak ┤' 21:46, 18 December 2006 (CST) ::::I've had a long sword (long sword skin) drop in Istan. - [[User:Bexor|'BeXoR']] 21:49, 18 December 2006 (CST) ::::Did you enter the underworld from Chantry of Secrets? I might be wrong about the whole thing. Order of the inscriptions within the table Currently all inscriptions are ordered strictly alphabetically. I would suggest additionally to group them by effect and only within these groups alphabetically. Especially if you look at inscriptions for focus items and shields, you see 'Reduces condition by 20%' or 'Armor +x (vs. damage type)' etc. I think grouping within such groups will give a better overview. What do you think? Balwin 16:20, 16 November 2006 (CST) :I agree, that would provide another good overview, but it depends on what you search. I suggest a second table for such grouping. Maybe on a little extra page, or something. --Ineluki 06:12, 17 November 2006 (CST) :I frequently use this page to look up the ranges of the different modiers. Non-alphabetical order would make that a lot more difficult. However, I can see the advantage of it for someone who uses the list to build an ideal weapon/offhand combination. What about a grid that lists "Type" across the top, and "Effect" down the side? On another topic, I wonder if each campaign will introduce more inscriptions, or if this is pretty much it - it makes a difference for maintaining edits.... - Lord Ehzed 09:20, 17 November 2006 (CST) ::I, too, agree that Inscriptions should be sorted by effect before alphabet. I plan to do a redesign/reformatting of the table anyway. I'll change the sort order in the process. I'll also create individual articles for each inscription to allow for categorization. This should allow wiki users to look for inscriptions both by effect and by alphabet. -- 10:02, 2 January 2007 (CST) :::Please see User:Tetris L/Sandbox/Inscription for a table format that is sorted by effect, in a kind of tree structure, instead of alphabet. A few effects (HSR/HCT, attribute +1, ...) are missing, and the trivia column isn't filled in yet. That is something I'll add if a few people have posted their thoughts. Do you like the new structure better than the old one or prefer the old simple list? -- 10:09, 9 January 2007 (CST) ::::Definitely prefer it. It takes a couple of seconds to understand, but the current table is so long it's become unwieldy and difficult to use. --NieA7 10:13, 9 January 2007 (CST) :::::I've done some more changes about my draft, mostly for the pop culture references. Please review and comment. If nobody objects, I'll copy my new version over the old version tomorrow. -- 09:08, 10 January 2007 (CST) ::::::I preferred the previous example with the references in the table itself, but I'm guessing when you put all of them in it mucked up the spacing? --NieA7 08:41, 11 January 2007 (CST) :::::::Yes, indeed it does. Also, I think such kind of reference belongs in a footnote rather than the table itself, as it is not directly relevant. Anyway ... with nobody speaking up against it I'll copy my draft over to the article, overwriting the old version. -- 03:33, 12 January 2007 (CST) ::::::::Thinking about it, I reckon it'd look better if the "Item type: Inscribable ..." column was switched from being last to being first. The kind of thing it can be attached to is fundamental to an inscription, so knowing where it goes is normally the first thing I'd want to know. --NieA7 10:13, 12 January 2007 (CST) Bows, staves, etc. These weapons should accept two inscriptions, right? Bows always had two built-in modifiers, so do they come with two inscription slots? Honest Abe (24.50.118.217) 19:00, 23 December 2006 (CST) :Bows never had two built-in mods, they're like daggers. Staves and such come with one inherent mod and one inscription slot. --Armond Warblade (talk) 14:23, 27 December 2006 (CST) inscription (and wand wrap too) from chap1 I was out solo farming titans post nightfall in kryta. I got a gold cesta (wand) and it had an insciption AND a wand wrapping, both i salvaged. was a 15% while enchanted inscription and a memory wrap 20%. :: Soqed Hozi :: 08:40, 3 January 2007 (CST) :New update? They didn't do that a couple days ago when I was farming hydras. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST) Damage modifier inscriptions and spells I'm not sure how much use there would be in putting a damage modifier on a wand, IF that modifier didn't apply to spells. This may just be wishful thinking, but does putting a damage inscription on a wand lend it's damage bonus to spells? -- [[User:ImbrilShadowfire|'Imbril Shadowfire']] 20:49, 14 January 2007 (CST) :Probably wishful thinking, but I would love to see some test results. 15% of a Rodgort's Invocation is a lot of bonus damage. --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST) :Do damage inscriptions trigger on Attacks, for example, when I use galrath slash, do I get a +15% on the 42 damage? StatMan 23:58, 17 January 2007 (CST) Malus I understand what Malus means, and it's perfectly correct, but should we change it to something a little more... accessible? Again, doesn't matter much to me, but layman's terms might be a better choice. -- [[User:ImbrilShadowfire|'Imbril Shadowfire']] 18:33, 16 January 2007 (CST) :Make link to Malus, which is (or should be) a redirect page? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST) Redirects... I think this is now officially the page with the most articles redirecting to it. >< Entropy 18:37, 16 January 2007 (CST) :It may have managed to even surpass Key and Chest ... --- Barek (talk • ) - 18:44, 16 January 2007 (CST) ::And? It's the page with the greatest number of individual things that people will search for when they come to the wiki. I know I've been wishing I could go around linking things to Radiant or Guided by Fate (check spelling/capitalization/whatever). On a related note, can we get these things to link to their specific part in the article (for example, Radiant redirecting to the table for armor insignias)? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST) Too Much Information There is a song by Quiet Riot that goes by that name, too, on the album Alive and Well. Just to bring that up, since Wikipedia doesn't have any links to it on the disambiguation page. >_> ArcaneApostle 09:17, 17 January 2007 (CST) :Which came first, the song by QR or the song by Duran Duran? --Armond Warblade (talk) 22:48, 17 January 2007 (CST) Veagence is Mine This is also used in Monty Python And the Holy Grail, during the fight with the Black Knight. : Sorry wasn't logged in --P.hilling 08:26, 28 January 2007 (CST) :: OK my memory isn't as good as it used to be.. Mis-remembering "Victory Is Mine!" --P.hilling 05:29, 29 January 2007 (CST) "Dance with Death" Why was it concluded this was a Sword of Truth reference? There are a few movies and songs with the same title. :Find a reference before the date of publication and it can be changed. - [[User:Bexor|'BeXoR']] 00:35, 1 February 2007 (CST) "Strength and Honor" There appears to be a bug with the "Strength and Honor" inscription. Each time you ID an item with the inscription, it will unlock it. This means that if you have a 15% version and you ID a 13%, you can now only use the 13% once in PvP. --EchoingZen 19:43, 24 February 2007 (CST) Hmm, I can't say i've seen the same issue. I ID'd a 12% this morning and can still use the 15% for pvp equip. --100px (talk) 19:47, 24 February 2007 (CST) Interesting... I just ID'd another one, and it ID'd fine. I'm pretty sure I'm not making this up, but its seeming thats the case. I'm gonna see if I can't do some more testing. --EchoingZen 20:57, 24 February 2007 (CST) Teh pop culture sucks That list is pitiful. Removing it entirely and starting over would be the best bet (seriously, I would bet two sets of FoW that "I Can See Clearly Now" is *not* a reference to an R Kelly song). '"Knowing is Half the Battle" was quoted at the end of every episode of GI Joe' is bull, that phrase is older than GI Joe... '"Life is Pain" is likely a reference to the Princess Bride (or Buddha, take your pick).' C'mon. That's just sad. We're a documentation site, and listing small asides of trivia is fine (like if X boss is named after Y famous PvPer) but really now... -Auron 08:03, 13 March 2007 (CDT) :The problem with that is, it's impossible to determine what references were intended, since the developers never released an official list; therefore we have to list all possible references or none at all, it doesn't make sense to list a reference because one person thinks that's a more popular reference... the devs are gamers, just becuase something's more popular doesn't mean that's necissaraly where they got it from.Actellim 18:42, 13 March 2007 (CDT) ::I should've argued against these more strongly when they first started popping up. What it comes down to is that the majority of pop-culture references are speculation - as there's nothing official from ArenaNet for most of the references on this and other articles (I recall a handful being mentioned in passing - I think it was by The Scribe, but may have been Gaile Gray). As they're speculation, they really belong more on talk pages or on sub-pages rather than in the articles. But, I haven't had the energy to try to push a proposal and then to lead a clean-up crusade. --- Barek (talk • ) - 18:47, 13 March 2007 (CDT)